All About Bengal's Page
This EXCELLENT Infomation was provided by Nitewinds Bengals & Savannahs, Kingsmark Bengals & Serengetis, TICA & a few friends. Many Many thanks to all of you who have helped this page be Fantastic! All of these great websites can be found on my Friends & Links Page.
Homebred Frostymoon Kitten
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All about Bengal's
*History, Genetics, Care, Characteristics & More*
All about Colours & Patterns of Bengal's
*Amazing Photos & Excellent Details*
All about Show, Breeding & Pet Quality Bengal's
*What you need to know!*
All about the Bengal Breed Standard
*TICA Breed Standard*
All About The Asian Leopard Cat
*Where it all started with Gorgeous Pictures!*
Bengal V Savannah Cat
*Whats the difference?*
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All about Bengal's
We believe that pictures speak louder than words in the explanation of color and pattern. So we have put information here from breeders who specialize in certain patterns and colors. We believe their expertise will make the understanding of pattern and color easier. You may find that you will fall in love with a pattern or color new to you!
The Bengal Cat is a unique domestic breed derived from crossing various breeds of domestic cats with Asian Leopard Cats. Breeders are working to create a cat that has the shape and beautiful coat of the Asian Leopard Cat and the friendly temperament of the domestic cat.Asian Leopard Cats occur from India eastward through Burma, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and south to Indonesia and northwards to China. They are about the size of a domestic cat or a bit smaller. They have relatively small heads and small round ears. There is considerable variation in size and color from differing parts of their range. They are primarily a cat of the forest, nocturnal and generally very shy.
The first generation offspring of an Asian Leopard Cat and a domestic cat - known as the F1 generation - usually are very shy and do not make good pets. Those cats that have an Asian Leopard Cat as a grandparent are known as the F2 or second generation Leopard Cat hybrids. These cats are less shy, but still generally do not like to be handled, especially by strangers. Those cats that are three generations from the Leopard Cat - the F3 generation - often behave just like a domestic cat and usually make good pets, especially in a quiet adult home. Those cats that are four generations or more from their Leopard Cat ancestor are known as SBT Bengals. These cats should have the same friendly temperament as totally domestic breeds.
SBT Bengals can be shown at cat shows and make wonderful pets. Caring for a bengal cat is the same as for any other domestic house cat. They readily eat quality cat food, use a litter box and require the same vaccinations as other breeds of domestic cats. Like all domestic cats they should NEVER be allowed to roam outside unattended. Most bengals are outgoing and confident. After a proper introduction, they get along with all members of the family including other cats and dogs. They are moderately active and inquisitive. While not very vocal, they can make a range of sounds from chirping like a small bird to a gutteral 'roar'. Foundation bengals -- F1s, F2s and some F3s -- do require some extra care and housing. If you decide to purchase a foundation leopard cat hybrid, please listen carefully to the breeder about its care and housing.
Example of a F2 cat, From Bundas
The Bengal is a relatively new hybrid breed of cat, while exhibiting the "wild" markings (such as large spots, rosettes, and a light/white belly), and body structure reminiscent of the wild Asian Leopard Cat (Prionailurus bengalensis).[1] In other words, a Bengal cat has a desirable "wild" appearance with a gentle domestic cat temperament, provided it is separated by at least three generations from the original crossing between a domestic and Asian Leopard Cat.[1]
The name Bengal was derived from the taxonomic name of the Asian Leopard Cat (ALC), as shown above, and not from the more widely known Bengal tiger species, which is unrelated to the Bengal's ancestry.
The world's first official cat show, held at The Crystal Palace in London on 13 July 1871, gave birth to the modern Cat Fancies. The breeds shown were the Persian, Angoras, Manx, Abyssinian, the Royal Cats of Siam, and domestic cats crossed with wild cats (hybrids) as well as wild species. The 1875 cat show in Edinburgh included a special class for "Wild or Hybrid between Wild and Domestic Cats"; this was won by an Ocelot (purebred, not hybrid). The first displayed hybrids were based on Scottish Wildcats (Felis silvestris grampia) and Caffre Cats (the Egyptian variant of the North African Wildcat Felis silvestris lybica), not ALCs, but it shows that the first Cat Fancy happily embraced hybrids.
The earliest mention of an ALC/domestic cross was in 1889, Harrison Weir wrote in "Our Cats and All About Them" [2]
There is a rich-coloured brown tabby hybrid to be seen at the Zoological Society Gardens in Regent's Park, between the wild cat of Bengal and a tabby she-cat. It is handsome, but very wild. These hybrids, I am told, will breed again with tame variety, or with others. However in 1927, Mr Boden-Kloss wrote to the magazine "Cat Gossip" [3]regarding hybrids between wild and domestic cats in Malaya: "I have never heard of hybrids between bengalensis (the Leopard Cat) and domestic cats. One of the wild tribes of the Malay Peninsula has domesticated cats, and I have seen the woman suckling bengalensis kittens, but I do not know whether the latter survive and breed with the others!"
The earliest mention of a confirmed ALC/domestic cross was in 1934 in a Belgian scientific journal, and in 1941 a Japanese cat publication printed an article about one that was kept as a pet. (As a point of interest, Jean Mill/Sugden, the person that was later to become the greatest influence of the development of the modern Bengal, submitted a term paper for her genetics class at UC Davis on the subject of cross breeding cats in 1946.)
The 1960s was a period when many well known breeders, including Jean Sugden, produced ALC/domestic crosses, but records indicate that none of them took it past the F2 stage. Several zoos in Europe also produced a number of F1 ALC crosses. During this period there was an epidemic of feline leukemia virus and it became known that many wild cats seemed to have a natural immunity to the disease. As a result of this, Loyola University would start a research program in the 1970s to investigate if this natural immunity could be bred in or replicated.
Throughout the 1960s and 1970s there was a great deal of activity with hybrids, but there was no significant effort to create an actual breed from them. A number of Cat clubs formed that oriented on hybrids and a few oriented specifically on something William Engler, a member of the Long Island Ocelot Club and a breeder, called a Bengal.
Club newsletters detailing the production of Bengals and Safaris started being published and members of these clubs bred some second and third generation Bengals. These were registered with the American Cat Fanciers Association (A.C.F.A.) in 1977 as experimental and were shown at several A.C.F.A. cat shows throughout the 1970s.
Around this time, Jean Sugden resurfaced again (although she had remarried and was now Jean Mill), and the following quote explains her increased interest in renewing her breeding efforts.
“ ..I deliberately crossed leopard cats with domestic cats for several important reasons. At that time, wild cats were being exploited for the fur market. Nursing female leopard cats defending their nests were shot for their pelts, and the cubs were shipped off to pet stores worldwide. Unsuspecting cat lovers bought them, unaware of the danger, their unpleasant elimination habits and the unsuitability of keeping wild cats as pets. Most of the wild kittens from this era ended up in zoos or escaped onto city streets. I hoped that by putting a leopard coat on a domestic cat, the pet trade could be safely satisfied. If fashionable women could be dissuaded from wearing furs that look like friends' pets, the diminished demand would result in less poaching of wild species.
”
She contacted Dr. Willard Centerwall in Riverside who had produced a number of F1s using domestic tabbies at Loma Linda University for his Centerwall project into Feline Leukemia. Once the F1s had donated blood samples for his research, he needed homes for them. He gave Jean 4 hybrids. She later received another 5 hybrids from another source, but originally from the same Centerwall project.
Contrary to popular belief, Jean did not use local domestics to create her first Bengals. She felt the ALC was a genetically superior animal and wished to avoid weakening this element. Around 1982, the Mills made a trip to India where a zoo curator showed them a feral Indian Mau. This was how the famous rosetted domestic called "Millwood Tory of Delhi" came to be found in virtually all Bengal pedigrees.
Credit also needs to be given at this point to Greg and Elizabeth Kent, who developed their own line of Bengals using ALCs and Egyptian Maus. This was a very successful line and many modern Bengals will find it in their pedigree.
Jean Mills and the Kents worked hard to popularize the breed, and when the public saw the result of their work, word spread quickly. As the number of breeders and owners grew, it led to the formation of T.I.C.A.'s Bengal Breed Section. T.I.C.A. adopted the first written breed standard in 1986 and the first Bengal Bulletin was published in Nov/Dec 1988.
Shortly after The International Bengal Cat Society (T.I.B.C.S.), the Bengal Breeders Alliance (B.B.A.) and the Authentic Bengal Cat League (A.B.C.L.) were formed. These organizations exist to promote good breeding practices, discourage unscrupulous breeders, and attempt to educate people about the Bengal breed.
The breed is now T.I.C.A.'s most popular registered breed but it is still not fully recognized by some modern cat fancies. This is somewhat ironic considering all modern Cat Fancies can trace their existence to the original show held in 1871, a show that welcomed hybrids
New developments
Brown Spotted TabbyThe British government agency, DEFRA, has proposed revising regulations under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 to remove licencing requirements for keeping of Bengal cats in the United Kingdom.[4]
There are currently several varieties of domestic cat being developed from the Bengal:
The Serengeti cat - developed from crosses with Oriental Shorthair with the aim to produce a domestic cat mimicking the appearance of an African Serval, without actually incorporating Serval genes by hybridization.
The Toyger - developed from crosses with domestic cats with the aim to produce a striped "toy Tiger".
The Cheetoh - an attempt to blend two existing domestic breeds of spotted cats with defined characteristics (Bengal and Ocicat), into a third.
The Pantherette - developed using solid black Bengals to create a cat resembling a miniature black panther [5]
The Cashmere - developed from longhair Bengal variants [6]
There is a common misconception that Bengals are large cats, but they typically fall within the size range of a conventional domestic feline. Females are generally in the 7 to 10 pound range and males fall between 9 and 12 pounds. It is not uncommon to have a male that reaches 15 – 18 pounds. They are large-boned, well-muscled cats with the male in particular being extremely muscular. Non-altered males often continue to put on muscle mass up to two years of age.[citation needed]
A male Bengal cat. Note "mascara" (horizontal striping alongside the eyes) and foreleg striping, both typical of the breed.The face of a typical Bengal features a series of distinct horizontal stripes, popularly known as "mascara", which extend from alongside the eye to the back of the neck. The sides and top of the body are marked with spots, usually rosetted like those of the jaguar. The remainder of the body - including the legs and tail - consists of symmetrical stripes.
Genetics
Bengal cats are a hybrid breed developed over several generations through a program of selectively crossbreeding domestic cats, possessing desired features, with Asian Leopard Cats and ALC hybrids. In the first three generations, males are almost always infertile (by Haldane's rule), though there have been the occasional, but rare F3 studs capable of reproduction. Early generation females are typically fertile, and responsible for continuing the genetic contributions of the ALC to the next generation.
The modern SBT Bengal gene pool contains genes sourced from many varieties of domestic cats - mainly Egyptian Maus, American Shorthair, Abyssinian, Ocicat, and domestic shorthaired cats. It is commonly accepted that the breed was developed by Jean Mill of California in the 1970s; today, Bengal breeders exist throughout the world. Many breeders are presently working to develop specific characteristics in the breed, often by backcrossing foundation cats with particularly vivid markings. The ALC comprises several subspecies, and consequently, they can have considerable variations in their appearance.
The first three filial generations (F1 - F3) of these hybrid animals are referred to as the "foundation" generations. A Bengal cat with an ALC parent is called an F1 Bengal, short for first filial. An F1 then bred with a domestic male yields an F2, or second filial. Kittens from an F2 female and another domestic cat are then termed F3. Kittens from a subsequent F3 mating with a domestic are F4s. The F4 and later generations are considered domestic cats, are designated as Stud Book Tradition (SBT) Bengals, and can be shown and registered. Any SBT Bengal is at least four generations removed from the ALC. Founders (F1-F3) are typically reserved for breeding purposes or the specialty pet home environment.
Characteristics
There is a common misconception that Bengals are large cats, but they typically fall within the size range of a conventional domestic feline. Females are generally in the 7 to 10 pound range and males fall between 9 and 12 pounds. It is not uncommon to have a male that reaches 15 – 18 pounds. They are large-boned, well-muscled cats with the male in particular being extremely muscular. Non-altered males often continue to put on muscle mass up to two years of age.[citation needed]
The face of a typical Bengal features a series of distinct horizontal stripes, popularly known as "mascara", which extend from alongside the eye to the back of the neck. The sides and top of the body are marked with spots, usually rosetted like those of the jaguar. The remainder of the body - including the legs and tail - consists of symmetrical stripes.Bengals can have either spotted or marbled coat patterns. Spots with at least two colors present (rosettes) are particularly desirable. The following colors and patterns are recognized and eligible for competition: Brown Spotted Tabby, Brown Marbled Tabby, Seal Sepia Spotted Tabby, Seal Sepia Marbled Tabby, Seal Mink Spotted Tabby, Seal Mink Marbled Tabby, Seal Spotted Lynx Point and Seal Marbled Lynx Point. Silver was also recently accepted as a color variation eligible for championship status. Blue and Melanistic (black) are additional colors that occur, but are not yet recognized by most associations that accept the Bengal breed.
Bengal cats are the only breed of cat which displays the gold or pearl dusting effect usually called glitter. Its pelt has a rich smooth satin or silk feel. Even the voice of the Bengal is different from that of other domestic cats. Males and females are extremely vocal. Life expectancy is 12 to 16 years.
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All About Bengal's Colours & Patterns
Black Spotted Bengal
This is an example of a black spotted bengal. The markings are large black spots with no lighter brown centers. This cat has a slightly darker background color. Background colors in the brown spotted go from a very light wheaten color to a darker reddish brown. Markings go from dark black to a brown. This is Koppiekatz Oreo Casanova owned by Bruce and Vicki Safely.
Brown Rosetted Bengal
A rosette is any marking where there is a darker outline color with a center of a lighter coordinating color. This cat has black outlines with a brown center to each marking. Rosettes can come in a variety of shapes. Arrowhead rosettes are just that, arrowhead markings with a lighter color center. Paw Print rosettes with a paw print in the pattern where the center is a lighter color brown and pancake rosettes, large flat circles with a dark outline and lighter brown centers. This cat is Barstow From Nitewindes. 
Brown Marble Bengal
This is Zendada Sun Dog owned by Julie Gracie Moseley. He is a spectacular marble bengal. Marble patterns can be any sort of random pattern similar to marble. It should not resemble any sort of bullseye pattern. This would be similar to a domestic cat and is not desired in our bengals
Silver Spotted Bengal
This is an example of a silver spotted bengal. Silver Bengals should be very clear silver backgrounds with a dark black marking. Spots do not have a lighter grey center to the markings. This is SilverSir of SimplySimes. He was owned by Beth Bearry and Lori Simes
Silver Rosetted Bengal
This is an example of a rosetted silver cat with a clear silver background and very black outlines to the markings. Again, notice that within the "rosettes" a lighter color (in this case, silver or grey)
Silver Marble Bengal
This is a very famous silver marble... Kingsmark All That Jazz bred by Karen Sausman, who Created the Serengeti Breed & who had produced a great many wonderful offspring. Notice the very random pattern of the marble markings. This cat exemplifies the random nature of markings and "chaining" desired in a marble pattern
Snow Spotted Bengal
Seal Lynx are born white and develop their coloring and markings more slowly. As adults they usually have a very much lighter almost white base coat with lighter colored tan to brown markings. They also have clear blue eyes. This girl is Greenmansions Ashesvroses owned by Shiela Cox.
This little doll is Greenmansions Serenade a beautiful F3 Seal Lynx Girl with exquisite blue eyes owned by Shiela Cox of Greenmansions bengals.
Snow Rosetted Bengal
This cat is RW GRC Greenmansions Othello (a seal
mink rosetted Bengal with stunning aqua eyes). owned by Shiela Cox of Greenmansions Bengals and is an excellent example of a rosetted Seal Mink or Snow bengal. Notice the lighter centers with a darker outline on the markings.
Snow Sepia Bengal
This little girl is a Seal Sepia or Snow Sepia bengal. She is owned by Greenmansions BengalsIn coloring, Sepia is thedarkest of the snow colors.The contrast should still be there. Some people think this color is a very light brown spotted, but when seeing them in person, the difference is evident. To my eye there is a creaminess to the base color more so than in the other varieties of snow. The Sepia should ideally have gold eyes.
Snow Marble Bengal
This is an example of a snow marble bengal. This cat is owned by Beth Bearry and Lori Simes. Notice the random pattern to the marble markings, the brown markings with the off white background color.
Sepia Marble Bengal
Sepia is a color slightly different from the snow or seal color designation. It is characterized by an ivory or slightly warmer background color than the snows or seal colors. This color also comes in a spotted variety, However this color is a bit unusual and no photos were readily available of a spotted sepia bengal. This girl is owned by Beth Bearry and Lori Simes of SimplySimes Bengals.
Seal Lynx Point Bengal
Seal Lynx Point Bengals are similar to other snow or seal bengals. However, it is characterized by a white background color, lighter tan to brown markings on the body and sky blue eyes. This color is later in developing pattern markings than other varieties of color in the bengal. This color also comes in a spotted as well as a marble variety. They should have very blue eyes.
These are Seal Lynx Frostymoon Kittens :)
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NON SHOWABLE COLORS
The following colors although registerable with TICA, cannot be shown in any current color classifications for the bengal cat.
Melanistic Bengal
(Black with Black Spots)
Melanistic kittens have black spots under a black outer coat. The spots may not be evident unless in bright light. This color can be registered, but not shown currently. This kitten was owned by Holly Webber of Foothill Felines. Melanistic bengals also are available in a spotted and marbled variety. The pattern is simply difficult to see in other than bright light. Solid black bengals occasionally occur in litters.
Since they can not be shown for championship points, they are not as popular with breeders. However there are several breeders working on developing exquisite appearing black bengals. Just think about how beautiful black leopards are and you can see why many people enjoy owning one.
Blue Spotted Bengal
This is an example of a blue spotted bengal. Its markings are in what is known as an arrowhead pattern. Notice the cold steel blue of the coat color. This cat was owned by Karen Sausman of Kingsmark Bengals.
Blue bengals rarely occur in litters. They can not be shown for championship points, so, again, most breeders do not breed for this color. Blue bengals have gun metal gray markings on a powder blue body. Many people find they really like the color once they have seen one.
Blue Rosetted Bengal
This is an example of a blue rosetted bengal. He is a Stunning looking example of a bengal. This cat is owned by Sonargaon Bengals.
Blue Marble Bengal
This is a blue marble bengal kitten, gorgeous with beautiful markings and a lovely colour undercoat. Bred by Holly Webber of Foothill Felines.
From the top down:
Arrow Rosettes
Pawprint Rosettes
Donut Rosettes
Donut rosettes with "chaining"
Cloud rosettes
Spotted Arrowhead
Spotted All other patterns
From the top down
Horizontal flowing marble
Reduced pattern horizontal flowing marble
Chaos pattern marble
Closed pattern or "sheet" marble
Bullseye pattern - NOT DESIRED
Gold-arrow rosettes with black patina
Dark gold-arrow rosettes with dark brown patina
Beige-brown arrow rosettes with ticking
Dark beige-arrow rosettes with ticking
Sorrel-arrow & pawprint rosettes with ticking
In addition to the rosetted or marble pattern, there are three other factors that come into play when describing the color and pattern of a bengal. "Glitter", "Patina" and "Ticking."
GLITTER - is the term bengal breeders use to describe a cat that has translucent hair shafts. This translucence results in the cat appearing to be sprinkled with gold glitter in the gold bengals, cream-white glitter in the snow bengals and silvery-white glitter in the silver bengals. It is most apparent on the paws as a translucent satin look if the cat is in direct sunlight, the coat sparkles. It is hard to capture in photos. Its inherited as a recessive gene and was introduced into the breed from one of the founding bengals-Millwood Tory of Dehli.
PATINA - Any color & pattern of bengal can have black or dark tipped hairs that lay over the pattern blurring the pattern and giving the impression of having a black "patina" washed over just the shoulders and back of the cat. This is different from "TICKING" that blurs the markings all over the cat.
TICKING - is the result of the bands of color on each individual hair shaft being distributed on the hair shaft in such a way that it "BLURS" or causes a lack of sharp contrast between the ground color and the markings. This occurs all over the body of the cat.
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What's The difference Between
Pet, Show & Breeding Quality?
We are asked quite frequently to explain what traits make a Bengal a Bengal. "Type" is a term used to describe those traits that make any animal qualified to be categorized as part of its breed. "Type" is that set of characteristics that differentiate a Bengal from other cats which may also have spots. Although an Egyptian Mau, Ocicat and Savannah are all spotted cats, they should look VERY different from a Bengal. "Type" is that set of individual traits which makes up an Egyptian Mau or Bengal or Savannah as different breeds. Overall "type" means that you can look at a cat and know it is an Egyptian Mau or an Ocicat or a Savannah vs. a Bengal.
So what is "type" in a Bengal? The main focus for items that make up Bengal type are outlined in our breed standard. This is a set of individual traits which were agreed to by the Bengal breeders and voted on by the parent club of our breed. This is the set of traits that judges use to evaluate individuals in the show ring. It is also the set of traits which are used to judge the quality of kittens or members of our breeding populations in a cattery. Cats that produce kittens that closely resemble the desired traits are more highly prized and valued vs. those that resemble it to a lesser degree. The breed standard is the "yardstick" against which all Bengals should be measured.
What is Show Quality?
A kitten that is considered "show" quality is a kitten that VERY closely represents almost all of the traits in the breed standard. These kittens are very hard to produce as a breeder. They represent years of work and selection for cats of certain traits. Putting those cats together in such a way that they compliment each other. We desire that their offspring produce the best traits of both parents and do not produce the faults of either parent. Typically this takes years of work and experimentation and sometimes heartbreak. A breeder usually wants these kittens to be placed in show homes so that their hard work is demonstrated to other breeders, validating their breeding program. Once in a while, a breeder will place one of these highly prized kittens in a pet situation. They will be the most highly sought after and highly priced of available kittens. Understanding the reasons behind this are important in understanding the appropriateness of the price. *** Note: Just because someone on the internet classifies a kitten as "show" quality does not make it so. Before you pay the "show" price, take some time to ask the tough questions about what the breeder believes qualifies this kitten as that quality. Any good breeder will be happy to discuss these things with you. Otherwise, they are simply classifying the kitten as show quality based on the markings. Markings are important, but again, there are MANY spotted cats out there. Learning what makes a Bengal a Bengal will teach your eye what traits are important to YOU in your new family member. I am placing some breed information in the form of a PowerPoint file here so that anyone desiring it, can educate themselves on what makes up a show quality kitten vs. a breeder quality kitten vs. a pet quality kitten. In summation, it is the number of traits that adhere closely to the breed standard.
What is Breeder Quality?
Breeder Quality is a cat with enough excellent points that it is valued to pass them onto another generation. It probably has one or several traits that are not extremely "flashy" which is desired for the show ring. There are so many cats in competition that it really must be the "Best of the Best" to be shown. So, things like pattern or contrast or profile or eye shape or tail carriage might keep a cat from placing well in the show ring. But if the remaining elements are excellent, it would be a valued member of a breeding program. Two non disqualifying, non-severe faults typically means Breeder Quality. This could be things like pattern anomalies such as vertical markings, rib bars, eye color, eye shape, ear size and shape, etc...
What is Pet Quality?
Pet Quality is a very wide ranging category. It can mean that a kitten or cat has more than two show faults but the rest of the kitten is excellent in quality. Or it may mean that the kitten has no qualities that should be passed on to progeny such as lockets (white markings), tail faults or is a non showable color such as blue or melanistic (black). So, as you can see, just because a kitten is pet quality does not mean that it is not beautiful. You need to ask lots of questions about what traits makes this kitten Pet Quality vs. Breeder Quality. It may mean that the kitten is just as beautiful as a show kitten, but does not have the required love of showing. So ask questions!
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Bengal Breed Standard
TICA
B E N G A L (BG)
HEAD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 points
Shape . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
Ears . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
Eyes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Chin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Muzzle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Nose . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Profile . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
Neck . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
BODY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 points
Torso . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Legs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Feet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Tail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Boning . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
Musculature . . . . . . . . . . 6
COAT/COLOR/PATTERN . . . 35 points
Texture . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Pattern . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Color . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
CATEGORIES: All.
DIVISION: Tabby, Silver/Smoke.
COLORS: Brown Tabby, Seal Sepia Tabby, Seal Mink Tabby, Seal Lynx Point, Black Silver Tabby, Seal Silver Sepia Tabby, Seal Silver Mink Tabby, Seal Silver Lynx Point. Spotted or Marbled Patterns ONLY.
PERMISSIBLE OUTCROSSES: None.
HEAD:
Shape: Broad modified wedge with rounded contours. Longer than it is wide. Slightly small in proportion to body, but not to be taken to extreme. The skull behind the ears makes a gentle curve and flows into the neck. Allowance to be made for jowls in adult males. Overall look of the head should be as distinct from the domestic cat as possible.
Ears: Medium to small, relatively short, with wide base and rounded tips. Set as much on side as top of head, following the contour of the face in the frontal view, and pointing forward in the profile view. Light horizontal furnishings acceptable; but lynx tipping undesirable.
Eyes: Oval, almost round. Large, but not bugged. Set wide apart, back into face, and on slight bias toward base of ear. Eye color independent of coat color except in the lynx points. The more richness and depth of color the better.
Chin: Strong chin, aligns with tip of nose in profile. Muzzle: Full and broad, with large, prominent whisker pads and high, pronounced cheekbones. Slight muzzle break at the whisker pads.
Nose: Large and wide; slightly puffed nose leather.
Profile: Curve of the forehead should flow into the bridge of the nose with no break. Bridge of nose extends above the eyes; the line of the bridge extends to the nose tip, making a very slight, to nearly straight, concave curve.
Neck: Long, substantial, muscular; in proportion to the head and body.
BODY:
Torso: Long and substantial, not oriental or foreign. Medium to large (but not quite as large as the largest domestic breed).
Legs: Medium length, slightly longer in the back than in the front.
Feet: Large, round, with prominentknuckles.
Tail: Medium length, thick, tapered at end with rounded tip.
Boning: Sturdy, firm; never delicate.
Musculature: Very muscular, especially in the males, one of the most distinguishing features.
COAT/COLOR/PATTERN:
Length: Short to medium. Allowance for slightly longer coat in kittens.
Texture: Dense and luxurious, closelying, unusually soft and silky to the touch.
Patterns: Spotted or marbled.
Spotted: Spots shall be random, or aligned horizontally. Rosettes showing two distinct colors or shades, such aspaw print shaped, arrowhead shaped,
Revised 05//01/04 Bengal Breed Standard, 05/01/2004
doughnut or half-doughnut shaped or clustered are preferred to single spotting but not required. Contrast with ground color must be extreme, giving distinct pattern and sharp edges. Strong, bold chin strap and mascara markingsdesirable. Virtually white undersides and belly desirable. Blotchy horizontal shoulder streaks, spotted legs and spotted or rosetted tail are desirable.
Belly must be spotted.
Marbled: See TICA Uniform Color
Description (74.1.1.2.1).
Colors:
Brown Tabby: All variations of brown are allowed; however, a high degree of rufousing is preferred. Markings various shades of brown to black. Light spectacles encircling the eyes and a virtually white ground color on the whisker pads, chin, chest, belly and inner legs is desirable.
Seal Sepia Tabby, Seal Mink Tabby, and Seal Lynx Point Tabby: Pattern can be various shades of brown. There should be very little or no difference between the color of the body (pattern) markings and point color.
GENERAL DESCRIPTION The goal of the Bengal breeding program is to create a domestic cat which has physical features distinctive to the small forest-dwelling wildcats, and with the loving, dependable temperament of the domestic cat. Keeping this goal in mind, judges shall give special merit to those characteristics in the appearance of the Bengal which are distinct from those found in other domestic cat breeds. A Bengal cat is an athletic animal, alert to its surroundings; a friendly, curious, confident cat with strength, agility, balance and grace. It is a medium to large cat which exhibits a very muscular and solid build. Its wide nose with prominent whisker pads and large oval, almost round eyes in a slightly small head enhance the wild appearance and expressive nocturnal look. Its very slight, to nearly straight, concave profile and relatively short ears with wide base and rounded tips add to the Bengal’s distinctive and unique appearance. The short, dense coat has a uniquely soft and silky feel. The coat may be glittered or not glittered, with neither type to be given preference. A thick, low-set, medium-length tail adds balance to thecat.
ALLOWANCES: Smaller size, in balanced proportion, of females. Slightly longer coat in kittens. Jowls in adult males. Eyes slightly almond shaped. Mousy undercoat.
PENALIZE: Spots on body running together vertically forming a mackerel tabby pattern on spotted cats; circular bulls-eye pattern on marbled cats; substantially darker point color (as compared to color of body markings) in Seal Sepia, Seal Mink, or Seal Lynx Point cats. Any distinct locket on the neck, chest, abdomen or any other area.
WITHHOLD ALL AWARDS (WW): Belly not spotted. Paw pads not consistent with their color group description, or paw pads not all of the same color.
. . . . .
Temperament must be unchallenging; any sign of definite challenge shall disqualify. The cat
may exhibit fear, seek to flee, or generally complain aloud but may not threaten to harm.
In accordance with Show Rules, ARTICLE SIXTEEN, the following shall be considered
mandatory disqualifications: a cat that bites (216.9),
a cat showing evidence of intent to deceive (216.10),
adult whole male cats not having two descended testicles (216.11),
catswith all or part of the tail missing , except asauthorized by a board approved standard
(216.12.1),
cats with more than five toes on each front foot and four toes on each back
foot, unless proved the result of an injury or as authorized by a board approved standard
(216.12.2),
visible or invisible tail faults
if Board approved standard requires disqualification (216.12.4),
crossed eyes if Board approved standard requires
disqualification (216.12.5),
total blindness (216.12.6),
markedly smaller size, not inkeeping with the breed (216.12.9), and
depression of the sternum or unusually small
Revised 05//01/04 Bengal Breed Standard, 05/01/2004
diameter of the rib cage itself (216.12.11.1).
See Show Rules, ARTICLE SIXTEEN for more
comprehensive rules governing penalties and
disqualifications.
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About The Asian Leopard Cat
There are approximately 37 species of wild cat in the world today. Among them are the Ocelot, Margay, Sand Cat, Fishing Cat, Pallas Cat and of course the Asian Leopard Cat. We will focus our look on the most commonly encountered wild cats with the spotted or rosetted pattern. The Asian Leopard Cat is a common name for many subspecies of cat. We will endeavor to shed some light on what those subspecies individual traits are and what they have added to the Bengal Breed as a whole. The Wild Cat influences in this breed are varied. We are placing pictures here of the various types of coat patterns and physical traits and will explain their influence in the breeds development. We are also listing some information about cats with the spotted or rosetted pattern that have the America's as a home range.
Amur Leopard Cat - Bengalensis Prionailurus euptilura
As you can see, the Amur has a bit longer coat and a bit wider cheek area than the other Asian Leopard Cats. Its longer coat is necessary due to its very northern range and colder climate conditions of Northern Korea through northern regions of China, Russia and Siberia. It has the familiar striping from just above the eyes over the back skull and down the neck. 
It has a more often rosetted coat than just a spotted one. It has a wide nose leather and whited chin, tummy, spectacles and black or dark brown outlined rosetting. Its eyes are "hooded" rather than completely round and very deeply set. They have a dark brown to black rim, set against the white of the spectacles makes a striking picture. It has a larger bone structure and is a substantial cat. Its ears are also bell shaped but slightly wider across than the Asian Leopard Cat. These cats are also used in some Bengal Breeding programs.
Fishing Cat - Prionailurus Viverrinus
These cats show some similarities to the Amur Leopard Cat. The same vertical markings above the eyes and over the back skull. The same white and black markings (mascara) coming from the edges of the eyes back over the cheeks. However, many differences as well. A deep set to the eyes with an almond shape and a wide nose leather in a deep brick color. Their coat appears much more spotted than rosetted. Their tail is a just a bit longer and their ears are smaller in relation to their head size as well as well as more on the sides of the head than the top. The are also a larger cat than the Margay, Amur Leopard Cat or Asian Leopard Cat. They are midway between the Amur or Asian Leopard Cat and the Ocelot in size. they are between 15-26 pounds, about 16 inches tall and are a very stocky powerful cat.
Their coat is typically an olive gray with horizontal, parallel black spots. They are found in India, Sri-Lanka, Himalayas, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, Indo-China and Indonesia in forested and watery habitats up to 5000 feet elevation. Their principal diet is fish. They have a gestation of 63 days after which they produce 1-4 offspring. Although not used directly in the Bengal Breed program, the fishing cat's wild type, horizontal pattern and stocky build have contributed as a model for some Bengal Programs.
Asian Leopard Cat - Felis Bengalensis
The commonly named Asian Leopard Cat also has the deep set very dark brown eyes. They are more round than almond shaped. They have a whited underside and white ocelli (spots on the back of their ears). They share some traits with the remainder of the Asian Wild Cat populations. Some have a rosette to the coat, although many are covered with small to medium spots. Their pattern is very much a horizontal or angular pattern of spots or rosettes as opposed to a vertical pattern in the typical domestic cat. Their coat is very tight to the body and Extremely soft as opposed to the Amur Leopard Cat which has a longer soft coat. A VERY short THICK tail as exhibited by the cat in the middle pictures.
They have the small ears set as much on the side as the top of the head and very rounded at the tips and characterized as bell shaped.. They also are strongly identified by the specific profile demonstrated by most of the pictures above. From the side you notice a very slight curve from up over the back of the neck over the back skull, flowing gently into the forehead with no break between forehead and nose bridge. This nose bridge extends well above the eye from the side and continues to the nose leather.
There should be a deep side profile from the nose level down to the point of the chin denoting a strong mouth and jaw and the ability to catch and kill prey effectively. It can be found across India, China, Korea, and on islands such as Sumatra, Philippines, Taiwan, Borneo, Bali and Java. The fur trade caused this cat to be placed on the Endangered Species list. It is primarily nocturnal in behavior and prefer brush and forested habitats.
They are excellent swimmers and tree climbers. They are solitary and reclusive. They weight between 7 to 15 pounds with males being substantially larger than females. With around 10 subspecies, there is great variety in subspecies coloration and pattern depending on habitat, climate and elevation. The Asian Leopard Cats continue to be introduced into the Bengal Breed. The most famous Asian Leopard Cats to be part of the Bengal Breed genetic pool are: Taro, Phantom, Centerwall, Rajah Singh and a number of others. All Bengals can trace their origins back to one of these Asian Leopard Cats. With the introduction of other Asian Leopard Cats into the gene pool, we will continue to see some diversity in type in the early generation cats. Due to this, there is not a worry at this time of a small gene pool for our Bengals.
Margay Cat - Leopardus Wiedii
First, like the Ocelot and Oncilla, its range is not in the Asian countries at all. Its home ranges from Southern Texas to Argentina. It is noted by researchers by its agility as a climber. It has been seen racing up and down tree trunks in the manner of squirrels, that is head first. It lives most of its life in the trees. As is evident from these photos, the head style and type of the Margay has some real differences from the previous Asian Cat species. It has a more pronounced muzzle and wider eyes with really dark black eye rims and "cheetah tear stains" from the inner eye down the sides of the muzzle. They also have a single black strip vertically above each eye up over the back skull. They can have a darker rimmed nose with either a stripe or fuller area of pink in the center.
The coat is much more richly colored and much more striking markings than the Asian Leopard Cats . The coat color and very black contrasted markings are highly prized in today's Bengals. It also has the very whited undersides of the other varieties and the very horizontal flow to the markings. It also has a slightly wider and less length vertically than some other varieties of Leopard Cat. Ears seem to be shorter and very wide from base to tip. with no tendency to narrow. This cat has contributed much in its appearance as a model for the Bengal Program. Although none of its genes have become part of our pool, nonethess it has become an ideal for some bengal breeding programs in its markings, head and ear size and shape.
Oncilla - Leopardus Tigrinus
The Oncilla is a much smaller cat weighing on average 5.5 pounds. It has similar characteristics to the Margay and can be difficult to distinguish in the field. It's coat tends to be not nearly as dark and blotchy as the Margay and its tail is not as long. Its fur is not as thick and its body is more slender.
The notable exception to its resemblance to other Leopard Cat populations is that the Oncilla produces a melanistic version or black with black spots in the wild. The other Asian Leopard Cats do not produce a melanistic variety in their wild populations. Gestation periods run 75-78 days. It is found most often in cloud forests at much higher elevations of Central and South America than the Margay or Ocelot.
Ocelot - Leopardus Pardalis
The Ocelot is not an Asian cat at all. It's range is in North, Central and South America. They are a much larger cat that the Asian wildcats pictured above. They are listed here as reference only. Their coat patterns have inspired some Bengal Breeders to attempt to produce this very spectacular black outlined rosetted coat. This cat is much larger than the Asian versions listed above. They are usually 3'2" long excluding the tail which can range another 1.5 feet in length. Much longer tails than in the tree dwelling Asian Leopard Cats. It weighs 20-33 pounds. It eats small mammals, birds, fish and snakes and monkeys and are good swimmers.
They prefer to hunt on the ground but will take to the trees to hunt if no prey is found below. It is mostly nocturnal and very territorial. It will often have heated fights to the death over territory. It is most often solitary, meeting only to mate. It's gestation period is estimated to be 70 days. 1-4 cubs are born in each litter. Mothers raise the cubs alone. Due to territory destruction, there are only a few dense thickets which are known to be inhabited by Ocelots in Southern Texas and Arizona. Male Ocelots are sometimes killed on highways in this area searching for new territory. They have been found as far away as the Caribbean islands but are found in largest numbers in the Rainforests of the Amazon. This beautiful cat has an exquisite pattern on its coat. It has become an dieal of horizontal rosetting for many in the Bengal Breed. It, along with the clouded leopard lend their flowing pattern to that Bengal sub group
Clouded Leopard and King Cheetah
These two cats are neither American Wild Cats nor are they small. But they do lend an ideal to the Marble Bengal Breeder in terms of pattern.
We attempt to take our inspiration with the Bengal from nature. The above two breeds lend their design as an ideal of exotic horizontal flowing pattern desired in the Marble Bengal breeding program. It is to keep our patterns as far away from a typical domestic cat as we can. We use these as our ideals in that effort.
Other Cats used in the Bengal Gene Pool
This is the Bengal kitten ancestor The early generations of Bengal were developed by crossing the Basic Asian Leopard Cat (Prionailurus Bengalensis) with quite a variety of domestic cats.
Among them were:
Abyssinian, Egyptian Mau, Bombay, Ocicat, British Shorthair, A Black domestic shorthaired tomcat A number of Indian Mau's imported for the early breedings And a number of other domestics of all kinds and shapes. It is due to this huge diversity in the early generations of the breed and the continued introduction of new Asian Leopard Cats into the gene pool, that we have huge diversity available. It is consistency that we are striving for currently. To balance diversity with consistent type and to breed for healthy cats is the desire of every good Bengal Breeder
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Bengal Vs Savannah Cat
We often get questions asking to explain the differences between Savannah Cats and Bengal Cats. I hope this page will help to highlight the differences between these two noble and beautiful creatures.
The easiest way I have found to illustrate the differences is to first look at the wild ancestors that are the basis of these two breeds.
First, we will look at the Savannahs wild ancestor, the African Serval. The Serval makes its home on the African wetlands or Savannahs, hence its name. So it is a fan of water and will play in a pool if given an opportunity. In the wild, it will live in close proximity to African tribes. So even in its wild form, it is by nature not shy of humans. It is a very tall gangly creature with long legs, a very short tail and a head considered too small for its large frame. It has wonderful HUGE ears to hear its pray even below ground. It is not a stalker of prey as much as it is a pouncer by nature. They can leap high in the air over a large distance to attack prey.
It is also considerably larger than may be evident by these pictures. It is not unusual to find a Serval of 40+ pounds and 22" at the shoulder. The Serval comes in 3 colors in the wild, Golden, Snow and Melanistic (black). These are the approved colors of Savannahs.
African Serval
This picture illustrates very well the VERY large ears, wide nose bridge and small head compared to body size. A solid black nose is common as is a pink nose or a nose that is black with a vertical pink stripe. These Servals show the deep golden coloration with large very black spots
This picture shows a snow colored Serval with a whitish background and lighter colored spots. Notice the short thick tail and very long legs.
This picture shows a melanistic or black spotted Serval. In bright light you can see the spots in the coat. Again, notice the large ears, long legs and small head compared with body size
Now we will look at the ancestor of the Bengal cat commonly known as the Asian Leopard Cat, Margay or Amur Leopard Cat. The genis species name of the Asian Leopard Cat is Bengalinsis hence the name Bengal. If is a forest dwelling cat found in the forests of South America, Malaysia, India and elsewhere. It is very shy by nature and hides from people, but is not inherently agressive toward them unless cornered.
It is a smaller cat which varies some depending on the location, ancestors and food supply. It can reach 15 pounds but its size seems much smaller that this. The weight comes from muscling due to extensive tree climbing and genetics. I has very small ears but very large round eyes to allow it to see in the darker forest environment where it lives. It has a short thick tail and a spotted coat. It moves close to the ground or hunched down on a tree limb in an effort not to be located by predators or prey.
In the wild, the Asian Leopard Cat comes only in the brown spotted variety. The approved colors for Bengals are Brown Spotted, Silver Spotted, Snow Spotted, Brown Marble, Silver Marble and Snow Marble. The marble pattern was developed by domestic crosses. Although not an original pattern of leopard cat, the marble pattern and coloration has become quite stunning. The silver and snow color were introduced by domestic crosses as well, but no one can deny their beauty in the show rings today. No one knows just how beautiful these creatures will become with the many dedicated breeders continuing to improve on their breeding programs.
Notice the very small ears, large eyes and spotted coat. It also has a whited, spotted stomach. This is a closeup and this cat is not as large as it appears here. This is an average size Asian Leopard Cat.
This is a young asian leopard cat, again notice the large eyes, whited tummy small ears and wide nose bridge.
This is a close-up of an asian leopard cat, again notice the large eyes, set deep into the sockets, whited tummy and wide nose bridge. The white area around the eyes is known as "spectacles" Eye color was changed by the photographer, they were deep brown and the coat color was brown as well.
This is a Margay, a relative of the Asian Leopard Cat which we love. Many breeders are hoping to incorporate some Margay traits into their Bengal Cat Breeding programs.
These pictures show a more accurate gauge of size of the Asian Leopard Cat. Also notice how it carries itself low to the ground. Notice the short thick tail and spotting that moves in horizontal rows toward the back of the body.
Notice no vertical markings which look like vertical stripes. Bengal Breeders prize the horizontal flow of markings.
Now that you have a better idea of the differences between these wild ancestors, we will discuss how these domestic breeds came to be.
The goal:
The goal was to develop a version of these wild cats that looked exactly like the wild ancestor but that would have a domestic cats temperament. This would allow people who do not have the knowledge, space or a USDA license, the ability to own an animal with wild exotic looks. Each of these breeds had originators who took the wild ancestors and bred them to domestic cats of various types in an effort to retain as much of the wild looks as possible while taming the wild personality.
Size and generation as a consideration:
In choosing between the breeds, size must be considered. A 25-30 pound 18-20" tall cat although beautiful and exotic looking uses more food and LOTS more litter than a 10-15 pound 10-12" tall cat. It also needs more space to exercise than a smaller cat would. Earlier generation cats are much more active and tend to retain more of their wild instincts than SBT or cats that are 5 generations away from the wild cats. Not to consider these things in your decision would be to do yourself and the cat a disservice. It will produce a situation which is not tolerable for either of you. Discuss this with the breeder and get their feedback.
Heartbreak and difficulty:
Genetics and breeding are not an exact science. Many attempts were made with various domestic breeds and domestic crosses. In both breeds, it was determined after trial and heartbreak that males are infertile until approximately the 5th generation away from the wild ancestor. This is due to the wild ancestor having a different number of chromosomes than the domestic. This also made reproducing offspring VERY difficult. Litter's were not produced and when they were, they were small. Mothers did not care for their young and human intervention was required. Even with intervention, sometimes entire litters were lost.
Bengal status:
This is where similarities between the Savannah and Bengal breeds current status ends. The Bengal has been in development for quite a number of years. The only breeds in use in a Bengal breeding program is a Bengal and rarely, an Asian Leopard Cat. As such, it has gained consistency and continued to evolve and its look has been enhanced. In some cases, current Bengals actually have coats which are more striking than their wild ancestors. Their temperaments have been tamed and some of their interesting wild traits have remained. These are fetching like dogs, loving water and being initially shy of strangers. Although some breeders who are licensed still use some Asian Leopard cats in their programs, it is not very common. Those offspring are only allowed to go to VERY knowledgable, experienced owners who can handle difficult cats.
Savannah status:
The Savannah is a very new breed and various domestic breeds are still being used in its development. There are no domestic cats with the size and long legs of the Serval. There are no domestic breeds with the large ears of the Serval. So, the breed development is taking great pains and lots of time and effort on the part of dedicated breeders. Some of the breeds that have been used in Savannah breeding programs are: Bengals, Ocicats, Oriental Shorthairs, Egyptian Maus, Maine Coons, Serenghetti's and others. Now if you consider the difference both in size and looks of an Oriental Shorthair or Bengal and a Maine Coon, you soon start to realize why this breed currently has a vast variety of looks in it's breed members. In a breeding program with a Mau you may find a very silvery darker background to the coat but better retained ear size. In a program with a Bengal, you may find smaller ears and some rosetting, but better golden ground color and better size. In breedings with Ocicats, you may lose difference in color between the spots and the base color, but better ear size. In breedings with Oriental Shorthairs, you may find better retained ear size and longer legs, but silver base color, very small spots and a smaller size.
It is only very recently that fertile 5th generation males have become available to use in breeding programs. We are hoping that this will be the next step in getting some similarity between our various looks. So when you look for Savannahs currently, you will see lots of variety between various kittens and cats based on what has been used to make up their breeding past. Currently, the Bengal was disallowed by registering organizations as an "approved" outcross for the Savannah. However, this breed does have things to offer in a breeding program if used correctly and not overused. In breeding as in life, all things in moderation is the key.
Savannah breeding difficulties:
As a new breed, with so few representatives, early generation cats are still very much in use to develop the breed. The use of these cats, although beautiful, comes with its own share of heartache. Many Savannahs won't bond or breed with a male they haven't grown up with. This means that breeders have to have a resident male and raise him with girls which are compatible for breeding. Even then, sometimes the breedings don't take, males aren't fertile, litters are small or non-existent and kittens die. It is not uncommon to have litters of 1 or two. Losses as neonates are not unusual either.
It is not unusual for a breeder to invest thousands of dollars in a male and females. Raise those kittens to adulthood to 2 years of age (Savannah's are late bloomers) only to find out the male is either infertile or won't breed his resident girls. Or that they won't breed with him. This means the breeder has to start over. Bringing in outside males or sending a girl out doesn't help either. Many females will only breed with males they have bonded with since being kittens.
Why the high prices?:
After reading about the difficulties in breedings and producing kittens you may begin to understand about the frustrations faced by breeders. But the second most challenging thing to feline breeders is the nature of the cats immune system. Cats live for the most part as solitary creatures. Meeting only to breed and produce offspring. This means that millions of years of evolution did not require the feline immune system to develop immunity to diseases passed from cat to cat. We as breeders have altered this equation in an effort to modify what nature originally gave us. This sometimes has consequences.
One of those consequences is the extraordinarily high veterinary bills associated with keeping multiple cats in close proximity. Responsible breeders try to give those animals in our charge the best possible life. This includes good health. However, despite our best efforts and those of our vets, there are constant visits to the vets for one situation or the other. These visits are very expensive because when one cat is diagnosed with even the sniffles, all cats must be treated. A C-Section, besides the cost of the surgery which is usually $1000, also can produce a mom who abandons the young because they weren't born naturally. Artificial feeding of young doesn't include mothers immunity and losses always result. As you can see, there is more to the price than just putting two cats together and getting a healthy litter of kittens.
Why 12 weeks?:
12 weeks is the normal timeframe for Bengals and Savannahs to go to their new homes. This is because the first vaccines are given at 8 weeks and the 2nd at 12 weeks. In this way, the kittens have two shots prior to going to their new homes. This lessens the chance of contracting disease. Your responsibility in the care of your new kitten is to take it to the veterinarian immediately (within 72 hours) and have it examined. Get a feline Leukemia test and vaccine. Do NOT under any circumstances give a shot for FIP. This will void any warranty you have on your kitten. This shot is not proven safe and may actually cause this disease. Keep your kitten secluded from any other feline members of your household for at least 2 weeks. This will insure that both are healthy when introduced to each other.
:Overall:
I hope this helps to illustrate some of the differences in the breeds to help you make a decision as to which breed will work best for you and your family. But if you still can't decide, I understand! After all, that is why I have both!
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